Porcelain Mark Query - Crown above crossed lines with B S E - How Can We Date this backstamp?

by Katherine & Vincent
(Switzerland)

Porcelain Mark Query - Crown above crossed lines with B S E - How Can We Date this backstamp?:- Hello, My wife recently bought very nice-looking porcelain expresso cups and saucers (see first picture). The person at the shop where she bought them indicated that the set was not complete and that some of the pieces were broken - she replaced some of the broken pieces with other complete pieces that had similar but not identical colors; for example, the blue set with 3 saucers has one saucer with a beige border (and a matching cup) while the other two have are white (with a matching cup) and light beige.

Looking on the internet, we found this site with an explanation of where they come from: http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com/thuringia/eisenberg_5/00.php

The manufacturer is German: Bremer & Schmidt. The marks found on our set match those displayed on the site (see second picture).

However, what is strange is that the numbers below the marks are very different:
- pink cups: 16, 25
- pink saucers: 16, 30
- blue cups: 1, 15
- blue saucers: 1, 13, 15
- green cups: 16, 24
- green saucers: 16, 21
- emerald cups: 1, 9
- emerald saucers: 1, 9, 9

It looks like those numbers are the numbers from the series, is this correct? So the pink cup 16 matches the pink saucer 16?

Also, and that is our main question: how can we date the pieces? It looks like those marks were used until 1972, but the factory opened in 1895 :-)

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Best regards,

K & V

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Reply by Peter (admin)

To:- Porcelain Mark Query - Crown above crossed lines with B S E - How Can We Date this backstamp?

Dear Katherine & Vincent

Many thanks for your most welcome and interesting submission with regard to your beautiful Bremer & Schmidt coffee cups and saucers.

The colour coding, I will leave to others, perhaps more knowledgeable, to comment on, but I will have my say on the dating of this mark.

Having this manufacturer begin in the very late 19th century, means we are talking 20th century really, but which part?

This is almost impossible to say without very specialist knowledge of this small maker. However, what I can indicate is what sort of clues this type of expert (who may be hard to find, by the way), would be looking at.

First would be the 'fashion' aspects of the piece. When was this type cup at the height of elegance and demand. Clearly this is late 19th, early 20th century. Could there have been a revival later? Possibly.

However, during the 1940's during the height of the War disruptions, it seems from the marks shown on PM&M, there was specific dating with Nazi emblems alongside the standard markings.

Post war, the factory was behind the communist block which often, it seems to me, presented a difficult set of economic and social circumstances in which to maintain a high quality product. This is not always the case, but often it is.

The factory, according to Chris at PM&M, came under state control in the 1950's.

Another big clue would be to look for tell-tale signs of age. Newer reproduction pieces would simply look less worn than their older counterparts.

It may well be that this pattern was made from the very beginning of production right up until 1972. If so, the only clue really is the wear and tear on the pieces, the quality of production and perhaps the application technique on the mark itself.

In short, these are very difficult to date, and most general ceramics experts would just likely say something like "early to mid 20th Century, unless a later reproduction", giving a broad range of dating.

Peter (admin)